What Changes When You Finally Listen? with Cheryl Holling

Cheryl Holling is a total powerhouse in the world of podcasting and voiceover work, but what really struck me during our chat was her incredible heart and the way she’s navigating life at 65 with so much grace and curiosity.

We really dive into the beauty of the "un-linear" path.

Cheryl’s been in the industry for four decades, yet she’s still out here launching new projects like The Voice Kitchen and 19 Stories from Fear to Hope. 

She opens up about the legacy of her parents, the deep importance of truly listening to one another, and why she’s finally owning her age as a superpower rather than something to hide. 

It is such a refreshing take on why our voices actually hold more weight and wisdom as we get older.

We’re chatting about all the good stuff:

• How to define what thriving actually looks like for you (and why it’s okay if that definition changes)
• The magic that happens when we gather in the kitchen and share our real stories
• Moving through seasons of fear and finding the hope that pulls us through
• The literal life-saving lesson of putting your own oxygen mask on first
• Why "learning" doesn't have a finish line

Cheryl reminds us that we aren't just relevant...we are becoming more rooted and more powerful every single day. 

Connect with Cheryl and dive deeper into her world:

https://www.cherylholling.com/ 

Thank you for spending time with me today on the Thrive After 45™ podcast! If this episode spoke to you, be sure to hit that follow button so you never miss one.

November 2026, I will be hosting a live, in-person experience called IGNITE: The Inner Uprising™.

It is a two-day immersive gathering for 1,200 women in midlife — women who feel the quiet pull toward something more truthful, more embodied, more fully their own.

IGNITE is an extension of these conversations.

It’s where reflection becomes embodiment.

Where insight becomes integration.

Where women who have held so much for others gather to stand fully in their own sovereignty.

If something in today’s conversation stirred you — if your body leaned in — that is NOT accidental.

The waitlist is now open.

If IGNITE feels like something your future self would thank you for, I invite you to add your name here. 

https://ignite2026.lovable.app

There is a place for us to gather.

If you loved this episode, I’d be so grateful if you left a review - it helps more amazing women like you find this show!

Your journey doesn’t stop here - let’s keep the conversation going! Connect with me at denisedrinkwalter.com, and follow ...

Transcript

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Hello, and welcome to today's episode of Thrive after 45. I'm Denise Drink Walter heart whisperer, midlife mirror and mentor. And every week I am honored to share energy and space with inspiring guests whose stories reflect so many possibilities of thriving beyond 45 together. Will uncover the whispers of the heart, the power of midlife transformation, and the wisdom that fuels expansion. What if the voices that stay with us the longest aren't the loudest, but the ones that listen deeply, speak honestly, and remind us that hope is still possible. It is such an honor and a privilege to welcome Cheryl hauling to our conversation today. Cheryl is a podcast producer, host, and voice talent whose work is grounded in authenticity. Warmth and a genuine love for human connection. With over five years in podcasting and a voiceover journey spanning more than four decades, she brings both seasoned experience and an ever curious heart to everything she does. Behind the mic, she's the creator, producer, and host of the award-winning podcast, 19 Stories from Fear to Hope, a show that. Opens the door to honest conversations with creative pioneers and voiceover music, broadcasting, writing, and coaching. Each episode invites listeners to face fear with courage. Stay rooted in their faith, and remember they are not alone in their journey. With close to 12,000 downloads and multiple industry recognitions, 19 stories has become a trusted space for real talk. Resilience and hope. And in 2023, Cheryl launched her second show, the Voice Kitchen, blending, storytelling, food, creativity, and Connection with a dash of Humor and Heart, because sometimes the most meaningful conversations. Happen when we gather and simply share as a voice talent. Cheryl helps clients bring their creative vision to life through professional emotional resonant performances across commercials, radio drama, Indus industrials. Retail campaigns and podcasting. She's known for being collaborative, easy to direct, deeply present, and for bringing a steady can-do spirit into every project. At the center of all of her work is a deep belief in kindness, encouragement, and resilience of the human spirit. Cheryl doesn't just use her voice, she creates space. For people to be heard. Please join me in welcoming the thoughtful, generous presence behind the mic. Cheryl Halling, so wonderful to have you here today. What a beautiful introduction. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so very much. I'm, you know, it's so interesting being on this side of the mic. Um, as a guest because yeah, I'm used to doing the introductions and I hear my guests often say, who, who is that? Who are you describing? And I'm feeling the same way going, wow, this is your life. And yeah, so, so thank you. Thank you for that beautiful introduction. I appreciate it. Well, absolutely, and, and I wouldn't have it any other way because it's really important that all of our listeners. Understand the depth that you come to this conversation. You are a human being with a huge heart first, and that's what leads your life, your conversation. So I am so grateful to have you here with us today for so many reasons. And Me too. I mean, this has been a, a in the making. We met a while ago. Shout out to Andy Lyons because Thank you, met Andy. And, um, we've been talking about having this conversation for a while, and so here we are. You in your nice, warm. You and your nice warm climate and me in my freezing, I'm in Northern California and you're in, uh, Toronto. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean those of you who are listening and not seeing on YouTube, I have a double sweater combo, and of course, underneath a sweaters like an undershirt because you still can't layer up enough. In Canada right now. Exactly. Yeah. And I almost wore my, my black turtleneck, but I thought, you know what? Can't go there when I'm talking to someone across the border and it's, they're really dealing with some, some inclement weather. So delighted to be here. Thank you so much, Denise. Absolutely. Before podcast titles, voice work. Recognition that's coming as it should because of your work is so empowering. Thank you. What do you feel life was maybe quietly preparing you for through the experiences that you've lived? Wow, that's such a great question and the simple answer. For this moment right here where I'm at. Mm. This conversation, um, in the bigger picture, you know, it's interesting when you say four decades of doing voiceover, right? It has not been linear. It has not been consistent. Mm-hmm. It has been very circuitous in Yeah. In, you know, as anyone in, in entertainment or in the performing arts. For some people it's linear. Some people. You know, they come out of the womb, here's your mic, they're off to go. You know, they're, they're off to the races, right? Um, I think. Really, it's prepared me for where I'm at right now at this stage in my life. I am a couple, I'll just say it, I'm a couple decades over 45. Yep. So to to say that Yeah. And be okay with that is empowering for me and hopefully for someone else because we have been, and gosh, I didn't mean to go off into this, but I No, this is great. Okay. Yeah. I think we've been so age shamed. As if, yeah, you, you, if you haven't, or even if you have done something by a certain age, that by the time you cross a certain threshold, I think especially for women. And you know, I, I believe this is probably one of the incentives as to why you started this podcast, right? Is that somehow we're not relevant or we're not useful, or our voices don't hold weight or they don't matter. And I'm finally going. Mm. And I'll just say it. Yeah. I turned 65 in December. I'm finally owning that. No, all of this experience, the good, the bad, everything in between has prepared me for such a time as this. Hopefully, that answers your question. I love it. It, it absolutely does, and it opens up a door through the next conversation that I want to move it to, which is age. Experience are on our side, aren't they? Yes. Oh, yes. Oh, I certainly hope so. Some people get older and they don't learn anything. Right. Let's just get real about it. Right? Absolutely. And that's their choice. Mm-hmm. Totally. Their choice. The concept. And you said, you know, I think that's maybe why you brought the show in was to make sure women is our target audience. This, our conversations are. Not only for women, but they land for us in particular because we are talking about our experiences through the lens of our lives as women. And so what I find. So enlightening is that we are talking about thriving after 45. We know that that number was a number that landed for me to show women that you don't have to just thrive. After 45, we know we can thrive before that. Mm-hmm. But the outside world definitely tells us, oh, you're hitting that Mark. This is, you know. Hmm. Thanks for your contribution. Thanks for sharing. Thanks. You can go now. No, we're not going anywhere. We're getting bigger, stronger, and more rooted in who we are. And so I love what you're saying because congratulations on 65. I need to hear you say it. I'm like, what? Love it. What? How is that even possible? But yes, thank you. Isn't that true? I lay awake sometimes at night thinking. How can I actually be 62? That like, I'm not compute, that's not computing for me because I feel. Not 62, whatever that feels like in my mind, how we were taught what 62 looks like and should be like. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yes, exactly. The rocking chair, the knitting needles, nothing. Hey. No offense to people who knit. I know very young people who knit. I wish I could knit, but yes, I, I understand. Absolutely. And so we get to choose what we are going to do day after day, year after year. Mm-hmm. You know, decade after decade. And that gets to change and morph as we become stronger and knowing who we are as a person. Right. Yeah. And you know, it's so funny that you picked 45 because I actually loved 45. I was the most you, not saying that I'm not empowered now, but there was mm-hmm. Something about turning 45 and where I was at in my life that mm-hmm. Sur 40 was a little weird for me. 45, I was really empowered. Mm-hmm. So it's so interesting that you picked this age. Yeah. Because I just see it getting richer and, and, and. More. Um, yeah, just richer, so, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it's all in how we choose to frame it. Oh, anything is. Yeah. At any age. Yeah, sure. Of course. Yeah, totally. Totally. Because like you've said, the good and the not good, the bad and the ugly all exists because we're human and we have that experience. It's what we do with that at the end of the day. Yes. As to how it's going to help shape what we are going to do with this new information, with this new experience, with this new. Opportunities that are sitting in weight. Really? Mm-hmm. That's good. That's good. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Amazing. Tell me, tell us about. Your, um, 2023. What happened in 2023 that made you say, I want to put into practice another podcast. Here's what I want to do. Tell us how this came about. The sec you the second podcast. Yeah, because I just had, I had nothing else to do. Um, well. If I may, I'll back up to Yes. What the 19 stories came from. Please do. Yeah. Um, I had been sitting on another podcast idea for, well, let's see, from the time I turned, uh, well really, okay, let, I'll go back to my, my father had a, a cable television show for 16 years called. Alive after 65. Okay. And that was up until about six or eight months prior to dying, uh, passing at 92. And he would interview people all the way up to his, his, the eldest person he had was 104. Wow. And she was a yoga teacher. She was like German yoga teacher. She's like, don't, I'm not gonna try my do do my German accent. If you, if you don't exercise, you don't eat. I mean, that was her philosophy. You've gotta exercise every day really, uh, really thriving. But he called it alive after 65 because if you really think people are, society thinks people are dead after 45. Yeah. Try 65. Right, right. So he passed and, um, I was, I think. Uh, 48 at the time, and I sat on this idea of Thrive after 55.'cause I, I thought, well, let me pick an age that I was already past 45. And I wanted it to be an homage to my dad and the stories that he told, because he comes from a generation World War II vet, um, of where stories really mattered. Yeah. Where people sat around the dinner table, a multi-generational, and they told stories. Right. And, and sometimes by the time it got around the table it was completely different story. Yep. Right. And you've heard it a million times, but, um. So many of those stories weren't recorded. Hmm. So when he passed, I had been sitting on this idea, sitting on this idea, sitting this idea. And so when COVID hit right, I was like. You know what it, it is no longer about thriving after 55. I've gotta pivot on this and address the fear that people were feeling. It's 19 stories from Fear to Hope. Mm-hmm. It 19 stories was a nod to COVID-19, and it originally was thinking of calling it the audio journal, an audio journal of the times that we're going through. But I called it 19 Stories from Fear to hope to talk to creatives. Mm-hmm. And other people who had. Their life adversely affected by the pandemic who were facing. Unbelievable fear, like a lot of us were around the world. Mm-hmm. But not sitting in that. Right. Let's move from that fear into hope because that's what's gonna pull us through. Right? Yeah. And if I might digress for a quick second. Yeah. Please. Not to get political, but I am here in the United States and if you don't think that our country's filled with fear right now. Mm-hmm. And I'm sure we're helping Canada deal with some, we're spreading some of that. Your way. Yeah. Hope is what's gonna pull us through. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I pivoted that on that idea and now, almost six years later I'm still doing that story. And then a couple of years, uh, three years after I launched 19 stories mm-hmm. I thought of my mom who passed actually three months after my dad. Oh wow. Mm-hmm. And I thought of what her stories were and the nurturing and her career and. Food and her love language. And I thought of, well, in, in regards to voice talent, I already, I interview voice talent on 19 stories, but what about, and I talk about the stories being shared around the kitchen table. Mm mm-hmm. Um, the voice kitchen where recipes and voice talent blend of inviting. Voice talent into a virtual kitchen and having a conversation about their favorite family recipe, what it means to them. Oh wow. Mm-hmm. Um, the stories behind it, if it, if it's a new recipe for their new family or if it's been handed down through generations. So that's where that came from and it was, so one is kind of an homage to my dad. One is an homage to my mom and, um. Here I am. Still love it. Still doing it. Yeah. And you know what's coming through really loud and clear is you're sharing all those passionate, starting, what's the, what's the, um, seed that was planted to make these move forward? What's coming through for me very loud and clear is the need, the value, the foresight of connection. Hmm. Thank you. Thank you for saying that because yes, I mean. We're, we're in our booths. We're in our homes. Yeah. We're in a, a lot of people, solopreneurs or entrepreneurs, they work from home now. Mm-hmm. And connection. That's why with the power of podcasting for me to be able to join you. I'm here in Northern California. You're in Toronto. We're connecting over, I mean, who don't we all wish we had invested in Zoom. Right. But we're inve we're connecting this way. Yeah. And yes. Now more so than ever. Oh, connection. Thank you for, for picking up on that. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, for sure. I love, you know, as soon as you shared your, your concept around voiceover kitchen, what lit me up inside is something that has always been a part of my life from I the day I can remember to now is where do. People congregate is in the kitchen. Mm-hmm. And that has never been lost on me. I know it's been lost in society at large, but if we can go back to a shared space around filling our souls and filling our bodies, what a beautiful combination. So thank you for the virtual, um, foundation that you're providing through that.'cause I think it's so valuable. So needed. You're welcome. And thank you for saying that. Thank you. Yeah. I, I, I think so. We all have the memories. Hopefully you have the memories Yeah. Of what it means. Even when you ha, you know, you're halfway out in the parking lot saying goodbye, and they're like, what? I just heard there was pie. Is there a I'm, I'm coming back in and then you're all back in the kitchen. Absolutely. Then you're coming back maybe for third. So yes. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for saying that. So true. And you know, it's funny because what's coming up for me is when our kids were like early teens, you know, 16, 17, we had a rule because I was seeing. These electronic devices, uh, taking kids' attention. And we had a rule in our house where there was absolutely, whether you were in a restaurant, whether you were at our meal for supper, like a supper meal or a lunch or wherever in our house for a meal, all devices went in the middle of the table. Yes, wonderful. Face down if you couldn't turn it off. I can't make you turn. You know, I want them turned off, but if you couldn't turn it off, because whatever still had to be upside down in a restaurant setting, if you had to answer, you paid the whole bill. Okay? Well, that's an incentive for kids not to answer their call. Wow. Take note, parents. Take note. Take note. That's fantastic. It worked. You know what? I love that you did that because there have been times. That, and I'm guilty of, you know, I'm, look, I'm a foodie also. I live in Northern California. It's a, it is a food culture. I take pic if I had a beautiful meal, I'm taking a picture of it. Yeah, yeah. But the reason I, I love what you did is because my husband and I have been out and, we'll, we'll see teens at a table, right? Maybe 5, 8, 10. Mm-hmm. When we were growing up, I'll just speak for, for yes. Myself and my husband said the same thing. If you got a, a group of young boys and girls together. Yeah. What are you interested in as a young girl? Most of, mm-hmm. You're interested in boys. Mm-hmm. What are boys interested, but instead of, you know, and some of these young men and, and women are like knockout athletes and, but they're all at the table. Yeah. I have to have it within, but they're all at the table. Like this. Yeah. Head down and we're looking going, are you at Hello? Look what's in. Look who's in front of you. Yeah. Look at the opportunity you're missing. So I'm glad that you Yeah. That you did that. That's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I mean, what that was like. 17, 18 years ago now. I mean, when they were first new. Right. And, and, and it just was something we felt very strong. And I, you know, former educator, principal, Hey, I make a rule. Oh, it gets, it gets followed through on Don't mess with mom. Yeah. She, you can't pull any, so how are they now? I mean, are they, are they cognizant of that it as. As adults. Yeah. And that's, that's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Um, still, you know, in their thirties our youngest is 30 and so, um, still very busy at that age and stage of life. Sure. So, but boy, when we come together and it's not very common, we're all together in the same room at the same time.'cause we're across the nation. We're not all in one central location. So when we do get together, it's such. Value time. I love that. It's so, yeah, it's so important and we love it'cause it's rare, but when it, when it happens, we're um, we're in the room. When we're in the room, we're in the room. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so what you do with your shows, bringing people connections through conversation and experiences is just such a beautiful way to help tether the importance of human relationship and the value that it has. Thank you. Yeah, I, I appreciate that. And I know you as a, a fellow podcaster, there may be times you feel what's called pod fade. In, uh, podcasting and I, I will tell you, it is sometimes we put our material out there and our conversations out there, and we never know if people are listening. I mean, I happen to know, I'm very fortunate. I'm sure you get feedback as well, but Wow. When you do an episode and maybe you don't hear any, you, we, we look at our stats, I mean, for people who are on podcasts. Sure. Oh, absolutely. STAs, you can see who's listening. If you have more, um, detailed stats, you can see where they're look listening worldwide. Right. But you might, I might have an episode out there for months. Mm-hmm. And then I'll get an email or I'll get a review about that particular episode about how a morsel of that conversation helps someone at exactly the right time. Mm-hmm. And I've always said, I really believe if it's for an audience of one, mm-hmm. Yeah. If it's, if it helps one person in their day, yeah. Then I feel like I've been of service and it all makes, it, makes it all worthwhile. You know, Cheryl, what you're talking about really resonates and, and for me, I haven't hit that wall of, Ugh. I just wait. Okay. I'll, or maybe not, maybe not. I don't, you know what I find I. I get to meet so many incredible human beings from around the globe that I would never, ever have a chance to in any other way. And what a gift, because I leave every conversation more fulfilled, every time I feel the same way. Right. I feel the, yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful. So. I, uh, it's, it's such a win-win, and I just, I love having real authentic conversations with people who are in the room to be present throughout our, our time together. Just like yourself. Yeah. Yay. So. You mentioned about, you know, didn't, I don't think you said specifically legacy, but your, your father's memory, your mother's memory. Mm-hmm. When it's all said and done, what would you most like to be remembered for? I love that question because it's not only. A question, an answer for you. It's for you asking me that I, it makes me think, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I can tell you if you asked me even a couple of years ago Yep. It would be different than it's now. Mm-hmm. Certainly would be different 20, 30 years ago. Yeah. But I mean, this as sincere as I, I as your question is. Mm-hmm. I think now. Both because of having not always been that in my life. Mm-hmm. I've always had an awareness of how, what, what our language and our words mean to people. Right. Because I have been hurt by words, but I guess right now I would really love to be remembered as being kind and being encour an encourager. Mm-hmm. That to me is probably more important than. Whatever awards I've been winning or whatever, accolades, because that we know that it doesn't go right. It doesn't go with us as, as we've heard the, the term. You will never see a U-Haul behind a hurts. It's just not gonna happen. Yeah. So it, I think if I would want, when someone thinks of me that they would again think mm-hmm. Remember kindness and, and encouragement. I love that and I love how you shared how it's changed over time. Mm. Mm-hmm. And that tells me how much, uh, introspective person you are, but also how much you have grown over the years, and what a beautiful gift to give yourself. Thank you. Right. Thank you. And I, I think that's also having come from the gener, you know, be mm-hmm. Being the descendant of the folks that I come from and their kindness and, and their encouragement and, um, at a time, you know, they're still beautiful people in the world. You're, you're, yeah. You are one of'em. I'm sitting in having a lovely conversation with one of them, but we are, excuse me, we are seeing a, you know, we're seeing a lot right now. Yeah, and we need more kindness and encouragement, and I think we're being called to. Oh yeah, right? Yeah. Called to show and model what is possible through the buck and the mire. Because we have choices. We have choices, as we talked about at the beginning. We have choices of what we want to do and how we want to live our lives, and if we live our lives through our truth lens and adapt and change as required when things are reflected back and we go, oh. Nope, that isn't what I should, I get to change that script. I, I, you know, need to reframe that in a different way so that it comes out the way that I want to be remembered. By and for. So yeah, on a daily basis too. Oh, as I've said it, I'll say it again.'cause I, I almost feel like in some ways when I'm the guest, I feel like it's a confessional because I will stink up the room. I, I will, you know, there have been times that I just,'cause I, I do my inventory. You, you were spot at the, the end of the day. I go, yeah, how did I move through my day? Was I kind mm-hmm. Was I whatever? Yeah. Or was, you know, we all have, um. An aroma we leave with people and I don't mean, yeah, some, sometimes it's literal, but I mean an aroma of an essence of who we are. Yeah. And did we leave a beautiful fragrance or did someone go, I'm so glad there that there oof couldn't wait for that to be over. Yeah. That encounter to be over. Right. Do you know what I'm saying? Oh, a hundred percent. What I love about what you're saying, I like to take it even deeper. And not only how you left others, but how did you leave yourself? Hmm. Ooh, that's good. How kind were you to yourself? How encouraging were you to yourself? That's good. Oh, right. Although I can watch this back. I'll take notes. That's good. Yeah.'cause we leave ourselves out of the script. We're always kind of doing for everybody else, which is another reason why I have these conversations because I want women to understand that when we leaves our ourselves at the door and do for everyone else, we are not showing up fully. And so now is the opportunity to, you hit the nail on the head, Denise. Mm-hmm. Because you know, I, you know, it's like. We've heard it said before, the oxygen mask as it drops down, because if you don't. Do your own. Mm-hmm. Breathing your life breath. How on earth are you gonna show up fully for other people? So that's beautifully. That's beautiful. Absolutely. You know, it, it really anchored in one time, I have to share this story with you because it's, it's so funny. Principle of the building, the fire department comes to do a drill. I always know sometimes they trick us and they put a little pretend flame and lock the door so the kids can't go out that section Really? So they have to reroute it. It changed since I, oh my gosh. So, wow. The one group got rerouted. Mm-hmm. No problem. Head count. Everybody gives the signal and there's one child missing because they said, come with me. Right? So the fire chief is everything Good. Principal drink Walter. And I'm like my, I'm just a mess. Knowing this is a pretend drill, but my, I went into fright, like, I'm like, oh, I've lost a kid. This isn't okay. So I went to him and I said, no, we have some, we have a child missing from this class. And he said, what are you gonna do? I said, I gotta go back in and get them. And he looked at me and. Uh, there's a fire. Don't you know there's a fire. No, you won't. Yes, right. I would put myself at risk when all of these experts were standing here having, and that was like doof. Hello. Safety first for you. Right? And that's something that has always been a new guiding force for me. Wait a minute, am I filling myself up first, my own cup first before I start to give to others, right? And so when we put ourselves in panic mode, we go back to, you know, not always ourselves first. That is okay to do look after you, and then everyone else benefits from that. And yet, if I may add to that mm-hmm. You were willing to lay down your life to find that child and with, without getting too biblical. I mean, he. Yeah. And with, and then not knowing your faith, Jesus left the 99 to get the one. Right. And as a principal, your, your heart and also the mother in you. Right? Oh, the, the mother in you going, I am not gonna let this child Yeah. Be, be by the way. So where was the, where was the child? Where was that? Came out with the other, with the other firefighter who had taken them and they came out the doors. It's like, okay, could I, you could check my, uh, heart rate now because, hello? Could you not have told me that before? I ran back into the burning building? Right? What happened? Oh, yo. Yeah. Well, they didn't let me go in. He grabbed my arm and said, Denise, we're here. I said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He said, I know you wouldn't have, but. I need you to really think about that, right? Because you're, you've got a responsibility to all including yourself, right? So it was just one of those, you know, automatically put everybody else first. And then when we do that, we're the last of the list, if even on it. And. As we learn about thriving after 45 and beyond, we begin to understand the importance, value and power in giving back to ourselves first. That we matter. That we matter exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. That's good. That's a good story. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, no, you're welcome. Still, I can remember. I can remember the day. You know, it's just one of those memories that you never lose, right? Mm-hmm. Is there a conversation that you've had as a host or maybe just being Cheryl that you remember has actually changed you? Then how did it alter the way you listened or showed up in the world even now? Ooh, I, I and, and this, wow. That stumped me a little bit because I'm fortunate that I've had numerous conversations that have mm-hmm. Changed me. Mm-hmm. Um, in allowing, you know, there is a, there is an art to really listening. Versus I heard you. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, it, it's kinda like if you have a conversation with your spouse and maybe they're preoccupied and you said, um. I crashed the car and they go, oh, well. Oh yeah, well just be careful backing up next time I go, well, did you hear me? I crashed. Yeah. I mean, maybe that's a weird, uh, example, but I've had numerous conversations where people have really opened up to me. Mm-hmm. Because not that I've gone for, um, a sensationalistic question to get a, an answer to take advantage of a situation, but I felt not, but. However, I felt that that was a story or something they wanted to tell. Yeah. And so I, I took a chance in mm-hmm. Asking the question, and by their response it taught me of maybe how to move through a situation with grace, or how to be more forgiving or how to apply a business. You know, implement that into something I haven't tried before. Right, right. Yeah. So as far as one particular one, it's not a cop out to say I've had numerous.'cause I really have. I'm very right, very fortunate and very grateful that I've had numerous ones, um, right. And, and more times than not when I am experiencing like, pod fade of mm-hmm. Wow. You know, podcasting can be hard at times because at, at least at this point, I haven't farmed out my editing or mm-hmm. My research or, or anything else. But then I will go back and listen to a conversation that I went, ah, this is why I'm doing it. This is why I'm doing it, because it fed me again. So if it fed me again. Then perhaps it's also feeding others. Yeah. Um, yeah. So hopefully that I love that question. Yeah. Yeah. You know, what's coming up for me as you're sharing is there is a real art and a real talent to listening. Hmm. And when we listen to understand and not listening to respond, the game changes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why I love, that's why I love having conversations with people because I love listening, to understand, to deepen my understanding and make sure I really heard what I heard and where I didn't tear it properly. I, I desire people to reframe so that I really understand where people are coming from. And you know now more than ever. Mm. And I, I'm, sometimes, I'm, I'm bad at this. Sometimes I, I do operate in a echo chamber mm-hmm. Where I need to hear something that reaffirms my beliefs because Yeah. The alternative is too much to Right. To even bear or comprehend. Yeah. However, I do know that unless we. Learn as I will say, from my country right now. Mm-hmm. Where we're at. Mm-hmm. Or just even in society. Mm-hmm. To have difficult conversations, like you said, with really the interest to understand. Versus being Right. Right, exactly. Versus I've got my opinion and you are not going to, I need you to give me something that agrees with me. Yeah. We are never gonna open the divide. Now, having said that, there are people you don't allow. Right.'cause they're dangerous and they're hurtful. Yes. And they're not good conversations. Right? Absolutely. Yeah. No, absolutely. And, and totally fair and understand that 100%. Yeah. Um, it's all about the connection piece again, isn't it? Really? It comes down to being available to connect in a way that allows us to learn. About ourselves and about others in and amongst the world that we live in. And yeah. What a hope. Hopeful. Yeah. Oh, go ahead. Sorry. No, I was just gonna say what an opportunity, right? If Yeah, if we, if we realize that life is really, um, it's a lifelong. We're, we're talk about Miss Principle, we're life is school, right? Yeah. And hopefully we're learning till our last breath, learning about ourselves, learning about the world, learning about each other, learning about our passions, our podcasting, whatever.'cause I think the moment we stop learning, yeah. Is when when we stop, when we, yeah. You know, when we get stuck and, mm-hmm. Yeah. Anyway, that's, no, I don't need to go on a sermon about it. No. You know what? I'm smiling because that's exactly what I say. If I stop learning, my vision is that that'll be my last breath, because that's what I believe life to be. Um, there is no finish line in learning in life. Right. That's how I view it, so, excuse me. Yeah. Yeah. I knew we were gonna have such a deep, incredible, connected conversation. I just knew it. I'm so grateful. I'm grateful too. I'm grateful too. Thank you. Yeah. So much. Is there anything you would love to share with our audience before we wrap up today's conversation about thriving after 45 and doing it for you by you because of you? I think you just answered that question. No, really. I, I, well, I will say. It's really important to define what thriving means for you. Mm. I love that. I, I, I can't tell Denise, I cannot tell you what it means to thrive for you. Yeah. I only know what it means. Like I said, my definition. Has changed, you know? Yeah. My definition of what I want, would want my legacy to be. Mm-hmm. I think you need to, we need to make that decision and define that for ourselves because, you know, in social media, as beautiful as it is mm-hmm. We also see the best curated life of other people and yeah, we wanna present our own lives that way as well. Mm-hmm. But. You could be 45 and be burnt out on the grind and realize that is not the direction you wanna go in. Mm-hmm. You could be 65 and go, I have never felt more creative and alive and I am gonna go for X, Y, and Z. Yeah. And there's no one out there to tell me otherwise. Mm-hmm. But that, you know, so it's not thriving is not age related. Mm. So. So that's the first thing. Thrive is not age related. Mm-hmm. And then secondly, define what, please define what it means for yourself and don't let someone else define that for you. Like you're not, you know, you're not doing enough, you're doing too much. You're, you shouldn't be you. Who are you to dream this at this age? Who are you not to dream this at this age? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, so yeah. Define it for yourself. Yeah. And, um, know that it's not age related. Love that. Thank you. Those two things and, and I would love to add, just as you shared, it can change and morph over time and that is absolutely fine. It doesn't have to be, but I said when I was 50, I was doing this. It's okay. Yes. It might be 55 or it might take a turn to the left. And that's okay too.'cause who knows what. That path will show you as you move along. You have the power to make the decisions, to make those changes as life comes forward for you. Right. And reveals it. Reveals, yeah. Something so beautiful that you never considered. Or at the same time, if I, if I may put this out there. Mm-hmm. You know, PE. Because you're on a certain path and maybe you've made momentum. Mm-hmm. And maybe you are in the term. I I really don't like it, but I know it. And the grind, right? Yeah. Yeah. Life happens. There's a Either a family emergency. Yeah. Or your children. Or your parents. Especially if you're in the sandwich generation where your parents are elderly. Yeah. And your children Oh yeah. Are younger. Mm-hmm. And something presents itself and you need to take time to take care of what's in front of you versus what you should be doing. That's, that's something that's right there that demands your attention. And it doesn't mean if you let go of this for a while Right. You won't course correct and get back on that path. Mm-hmm. Thank you for that. Yeah. Yeah. Life like we've talked, not always linear and that's okay. That's okay. That's where the lessons and the growth gets to happen. The pain sometimes too. Absolutely. Yes. Right. But it's all parts. Sorrow. Yes. All of it. All of it, yeah. Absolutely. And it's, it's gonna be okay. Because you're going to be able to listen to 19 stories from Fear to Hope, and you're gonna be able to listen to I ca IV. The Kitchen. Help me. What's the name of the other? The Voice. The Voice Kitchen. Thank you. The recipes and voice talent blend. There you go. The Boy Kitchen and Thrive after 45. Right. Yeah. And, and also get your nails done as beautifully as Denise, so you're not self-conscious about your under nail. Yeah. Yes, definitely after Thrive, after 45, you, your midlife mentor, Denise, drink Walter. Um, so yes. Yeah, yeah. We're, we're out here and we are all about connection, conversation, and empowering. Through kindness and encouragement for sure. Hmm. Cheryl, thank you so much for being here today. What a gift to have this time with you. Uh, it's been so good. I'm gonna call you back in a couple of years and we're gonna see where it's changed in terms of what your legacy will be.'cause it will change. It might even just deepen. It might not change, but it might grow deeper. Who knows? I hope Make a weight of the mic. I, how does this work? How do I turn it on? I would, I, we won't wait that long then we'll just do it. We'll just do it. Oh, no. Just kidding. Love it. Thank you. Thank you. Very, very much, and I really appreciate you creating this vehicle for people to come on and share their stories. I'm catching up on some of your episodes before we got on and yeah, I just love the plethora of, uh, the, the diversity, I should say. Yeah. Women that you have on and their stories and what they're doing, and it's a, a beautiful venue that you've created a, a opportunity for people to come on and have wonderful conversations such as this one. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here. I, I'm, I'm honored to have this opportunity to share space in this way. It's such a, it's a blessing. Somebody would've asked me three years ago, five years ago, you're gonna run, you're gonna host a pod, no podcast me What? And yet here you are. We don't know. We don't know, right? Mm-hmm. It's being open. Yeah. Yeah. The leading. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Being available is really important. Um, and we can't do that if we're following others' scripts. So when you do things for you, by you, because of you, these types of shifts get to happen. So like you shared. Whatever thriving is for you is what you get to move towards. Yeah. Nobody decides that for you. It's yours. Yeah, because shift happens. Mm. There you, doesn't it? Oh, yeah. Every day. Uh, before we close, I do want to share something gently. I'm currently stewarding the early formation of a live in-person experience called Ignite the inner Uprising. Mm. And it's being creative for women and midlife who feel that quiet pull towards something more truthful, embodied more their own. It's not an event that I'm rushing or loudly promoting. It's being built really slowly with care and deep respect for the women in midlife whom it's meant to serve. So if your body leaned in at. At any point today during our conversation, if something here resonated beyond just words, I want you to know this. There will be a place to come and gather. So for now, simply stay connected. Follow share, like give us your reviews so that more women can find us. And when the timing is right, you will hear more. Have a wonderful day. Take care of yourselves, and we are here to thrive after 45.